Zambians will change govt in 2011 - Magande

Zambians will change govt in 2011 - Magande
By Ernest Chanda
Sat 12 June 2010, 04:02 CAT

Former finance minister Ng’andu Magande has expressed optimism that Zambians will change government next year. Magande said this when he visited The Post on Tuesday to show solidarity to Post editor-in-chef Fred M'membe following his release from prison on bail.

Magande told M’membe that he never heard about his imprisonment on contempt of court charges because he was out in the village.

“I had gone to see my people out there and I only came back yesterday,” Magande said.

“Like I said in my text message, we have to be strong and move on. Our mission is to leave this world better than we found it. We have to make a mark everyday and you have made a mark to people. And that's what the Bible says that keep faith in your hope and you'll find what you want.”

M'membe replied: “In fact there's a Rabbinic saying that when one is about to die, God sends an angel to him and asks him, ‘is this world that you are about to leave better because you were here?’”

Magande said nobody answers that question.

“ You can't answer that question yourself. Sometimes you say why don't you bring the people outside to answer for you?” he said.

M’membe said people must ask themselves that question everyday, especially in relation to the communities they live in.

“Is your neighbour better because you are the neighbour?” M’membe asked.

Magande said it was surprising that many people do not ask such questions. He said there were a lot of things going wrong in the country. Magande said each time he read about the Chansa Kabwela case, he remembered the K13 billion which was recovered from plundered resources.

“We sat down and Mwanawasa said ‘I want an imaginative project’,” Magande. said. “And we agreed as a government that we will put up 34 maternity wings all over the country. But it seems all those ideas are gone. So, how do you solve problems when you don't even listen?”

M’membe said bad men were now uniting in Zambia, an indication that there is a bigger problem in the country. He said this should worry all the Zambians out there and make them congregate.

“The challenges are big, the problems are many and they need the maximum levels of unity in the country to tackle them,” M’membe said. “Unity in the villages, unity in the families, unity in all the communities, and unity at national level is required for us to make a meaningful impact on the challenges which a lot of people face. A divided nation cannot tackle all these problems.”

Magande: “No. But you have actually done quite a lot. And that just reminds me, I have my Post in the house for 2008. We were told we were going the wrong way, we ignored. People keeping The Post for 2008 they say you said it and you've said it, people didn't listen. I think this time around they'll listen because a lot of people don't have the information; they don't have the opportunity to know.”

M'membe: “For us, Mr Magande we have no regret for what we have done and for what we have said. It is said that a fool regrets what he has done and what he has said. A virtuous person, a wise man regrets for not having said something.”

Magande: “No, but you have and I want to assure you that there's a lot of support out there. And now really people are saying we can't lose the man that we know is behind The Post. Instead of all the people going there at the courts, there are many others who are congregating and saying I wish I were there. So I want to assure you and say the support is there and you just keep on. And like you said, nothing breaks the will of a determined person. Like I was saying, I was out and when I came back I just said let me go and see Fred.”

M'membe: “You know encouragement and support from a national leader like you is always important.”

Magande: But you know he national leader Magande is also a ‘renegade’, a ‘traitor’.

M'membe: “You are not a renegade, you are not a traitor. Who have you betrayed? A traitor is one who wrongs his people when he's given the opportunity to serve them.”

Magande: “Exactly”.

M'membe: “A traitor is one who steals from his nation.”

Magande: “I heard from one of my friends that they those in MMD call me a traitor and I said ‘let them make it louder’. … I have betrayed the people that are not following the right path, and I'm happy to do what is right if that is what is important.”

M'membe: “You left that treasury intact, in the most noble way. You did not steal a single ngwee. Let them investigate and find if you have stolen anything, then we'll call you a traitor.”

Magande: “So, some of these things, it's like I said to one of my friends that this is another Zambian Airways. They are merely fishing around trying to find something and they'll fail.”

M'membe: “You know, they want to blackmail everybody who speaks against what they are doing. Whoever doesn't support them has to be blackmailed, has to be painted black.”

Magande: “So thank you Fred, it's good to see that you are in high spirit. Please continue fighting for a common man out there and the battle will be won. I heard you talk about prisons and I said this is really sad if it's true.”

M'membe: “Yes, I was there 14 years ago and I can say that the prison officers are doing an extremely good job with the limited resources they have. They have transformed the situation there in order to promote human rights. They have tried their best although hampered by resources; money and other things. It is said that a society that does not care about its weakest citizens is good for nothing. There are a lot of people languishing there. Some of them have been there for seven years without seeing a courtroom. And most of them are there for sexual offences; they have been vilified by society and the courts. The moment they are associated with sexual offences, everyone treats them as guilty even before they are given an opportunity to be heard. Laws are made because we know that people will violate them. Look at the justice given to Mr Chiluba and his friends. Mr Kashiwa Bulaya today is serving his sentence in UTH University Teaching Hospital because he is a prominent person. All those people convicted for plunder of national resources none of them is in prison. You will only find young people there who might have stolen a chicken or vegetables because of unemployment. All those who stole millions of Kwacha with Mr Chiluba are serving their sentences outside prison because they are prominent people. That is the justice we have allowed to prevail in our country, where criminals move freely. I think there is need to re-look at the way we treat each other.”

Magande: “It's not far, me I believe next year we will make a change.”

M'membe: “Majority rule means the interests of the majority take precedence over the minority. Of course, it does not mean that the voices of the minority should not be respected. But we are saying the people should have more say over a minority rulers. Why is it that those who go to Morningside clinic take a bigger chunk of the national resources? Look at Chiluba and how much he has consumed even for simple ailments. Even when he was facing court cases he was allowed to benefit from the people whose resources he stole. He was allowed to go to Morningside clinic despite him being a thief. The prisons are full of poor people who do not have money to seek legal representation. The rich people who have stolen more money are serving their sentences outside simply because they have money to pay for legal services. And we call ourselves a Christian nation. I think we should not associate Christ's name with the vanity in our society. Let's call it Chilubaism or maybe Sodom and Gomora because we don't deserve to be called a Christian nation.”

Magande: “And he Chiluba says we should thank him. For what? For stealing our money?”

M'membe: “This is the person Mr Rupiah Banda calls a good leader. This is the damn good president of Rupiah. So, the difference between Rupiah Banda and Chiluba is the same. No wonder they have discovered each other and united to destroy this country.”

Magande: “But Fred, time will come and things will change.”

M'membe: “There is another saying that dig your well before you are thirsty so that when you are thirsty you will drink from it. You can't dig a well when you are already thirsty because you will die of thirsty as you dig.”

Magande: “Exactly”.