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My role ended at meeting debt servicing – Chibanda

My role ended at meeting debt servicing – Chibanda
Written by Maluba Jere
Monday, May 25, 2009 3:35:55 PM

Chanda: Let us move on. This madam told court that... threatened her children?
Chibanda: I was shocked because the previous day I met her in Shoprite and so when she came to testify, I did not know what she would twist.

We have known each other for 15 years ad would joke with her, she called me mulamu because I was married to a Bemba man. On this day, we met and seriously pondered the contracts…

I met her in the corridors so, that was the environment in which we had the discussion but previously we met and discussed Systems Innovations programme and how it would jeopardise our…At this meeting, she pleaded with me not to say anything… and I assured her that I would do anything in my power to discourage the Systems deal. So, when I met her I thought she was talking about her family and I said I need to feed your children in my house. It was a normal conversation. had it been a threat, further action would have been taken by either herself or the boss.

Chanda: Mrs Ngwenya further informed the court that that after the same encounter, she stopped dealing with issues of payments.

Chibanda: That is not true. She didn’t stop.

Chanda: If it is not true, do you have any evidence before court which can prove that she lied?

Chibanda: If you look at this document, they are talking about November 6, 1997 as the last date of her dealing with the payment authorisation. P151 your honour, Mrs Ngwenya…

Chanda: What is the date?

Chibanda: December 10, 1997. Mrs Ngwenya dealt with them.

Chanda: What did she do?

Chibanda: Authorised it for payment. At P155 Mrs Ngwenya took the same action.

Chanda: What is the date?

Chibanda: March 1998.

Chanda: How about P57?

Chibanda: May 27, 1998.

Chanda: What did she do?

Chibanda: The same action she did before.

Chanda: Any others you can pick out?

Chibanda: Yes your honour, there are plenty. P 161 dated September 24, 1998, P164 dated December 4, 1998, P166 dated 9th February 1999, P167 dated 1 March 1999, P168 dated 24th March 1999 sorry your honour I have 31 August 1999, P175 dated 1 October 1999. I could go on to prove that she worked on that. Beyond December 1997, Mrs Ngwenya still worked, so it’s not true that she stopped.

Chanda: She said she informed Dr Kalyalya remember?

Chibanda: Yes I remember.

Chanda: In view of that, what is your comment?

Chibanda: I can’t dispute but the fact that no action was taken means this was taken out of context.

Chanda: Remember when the payments authorization were repeated?

Chibanda: They were repeated at instructions of the Office of the President or even had another if they are representing different agreements.

Chanda: What was meant by repeated authorization?

Chibanda: The fact that payment authorization reads 11th Installation to Village complex….

Chanda: Let me refer you to P4. See if it can be of assistance to what you are saying. What is folio 114?

Chibanda: It is a letter to myself by WY Zulu from the Office of the President special division. If you permit me, I will read part of the letter [Chibanda reads the letter in part].

Chanda: What was the meaning of that letter?

Chibanda: It was saying I had misquoted the installments; there were two more to go. Your honour, they are about the same, 10th December 1997, she was talking about November 1997, it is a similar period your honour.

Chanda: What would be your further comment on the aspect that the Ministry of Finance supervised the Bank of Zambia?

Chibanda: I can’t counter the fact that the ministry supervised the Bank of Zambia but the fact that she mentioned that we were debt servicing for Systems reaffirms what I told the court that it came under contingency for we had an agreement with our cooperating partners that we would not contract commercial debt.

Chanda: Now, before I wind up, would you perhaps shed some light whether contingency is budgeted for.

Chibanda: Contingency is budgeted for even in my house I budget for contingency. In any government department, there is a time called contingency.

Chanda: Why were payments cleared after November?

Chibanda: New contracts were signed. Before this court are contracts which were signed beyond November 1997, new contracts ere entered into.

Chanda: Let’s move on to the brief aspect of evidence of PW 13 Mr J Mutonga. What would be your position?

Chibanda: I instructed counsel not to cross examine Mr Mutonga because there was no need. He informed court that he signed most of the contracts and that once he signed those below had to …I was below him. He also informed the court that he was under a lot of pressure infact…most of the time, he called me to his office and instructed me to pay in the presence of the Director General. On many occasions I complained to him about the negative effects it had on our economic programme, he just told me to be careful with the way I handled intelligence issues. He said, without security, there would be no economic progress. He often told me of how he was transferred to Northern Province even as a professional.

Chanda: You worked under him?

Chibanda: Yes.

Chanda: And received some instructions from him?

Chibanda: Yes.

Chanda: Did you receive instructions on these contracts?

Chibanda: Yes.

Chanda: Apart from this, did he assign you any other?

Chibanda: Yes. Often he would send me for security meetings.

Chanda: Do you remember any?

Chibanda: Yes, he sent me to Russia to negotiate with the Russian government our debt because they had refused to…I went to plead with them to forgive our indebtedness, they had refused because we had betrayed them. I was sent to Israel under president Chiluba.

Chanda: Remember the evidence of PW 15 Mr Christopher Daka, PW 17 Mr Philemon Mukumba and PW 18 Steven Mbewe? Who are these?

Chibanda: From the same ministry, Ministry of Finance.

Chanda: Explain to the court since they were called as witnesses by the state. What would you say was their relevance in view of the payments? [At this point, the state objects to that line of questioning]

Chanda: I will rephrase.

Chibanda: I’ll start with Mr Christopher Daka, in line of business in the directorate of external resource mobilization, we had the accounting unit attached there, there was an audit unit…[Chibanda goes on to explain the structural performances in that department].

Mr Christopher Daka was answerable to the principal accountant in short I had no dealings with Mr Daka and if I looked at the payment authorisation, there is none that Mr Daka paid. My instructions were to the principal accountant, Mr Shadreck Mutonga.

Chanda: He came as PW what?

Chibanda: He did not come as a witness before this court.

Chanda: Is it your evidence that he could have been more useful?

Chibanda: I did not instruct Mr Daka. Now, I will go to PW 17 Mr Philemon Mukumba. He played no role and he did not receive instructions, the same with the data entry clerk he did not receive any instructions from me.

Chanda: There are some witnesses who said you restricted them access to the contracts?

Chibanda: I did not deal with them; I was authorised to give the contracts to the principal accountant.

Chanda: What is your position on the testimony of PW 15 on the issue of data base?

Chibanda: I said it was a management tool and not an accounting tool. An accounting tool is a ledger, not a data base. Your honour, there is a lot of emphasis on the data base, this is a tool for rescheduling debt, it was not an official…

Chanda: You said PW 15 and PW 17 were not answerable to you but he testified that you called them to a meeting where you carpeted them for delaying the payment for Systems?

Chibanda: Yes. It was my duty because their duty was to meet their payment deadline. They were not performing the job they were employed to do and as a senior, I had a duty to do that. My bosses often carpeted me.

Chanda: PW 15 and PW 17 testified that your secretary instead was the one raising payment instructions when it was their duty. What is your position?

Chibanda: I will not dwell on what she did and didn’t except if by raising payments, there was a typed form then we are slitting hairs where it should not be. The debt and aid office has to sign. None of the payments were signed by Mrs Elizabeth Nkumba they were all signed by accountants. After this authorisation had been signed, it is audited by internal audit then signed by the authorized signatories, then to the accountant general’s office. None of these payments show that Mrs Nkumba raised any of the payments.

Nchito: Your honour, the witness is not answering the question.

Chanda: Ms Chibanda, address the question as it is put to you. I’ll concede to the objection by Mr Nchito.

Chibanda: Mrs Nkumba did not raise a payment instruction, all payments authorisations were raised by accountants.

Chanda: In P102, there is nothing showing Mrs Nkumba raised the payment authorisation?

Chibanda: There is no evidence from P102 to P108 that she raised payments.

Chanda: Mr Mbewe expressed surprise that while Systems and Wilburn were not on the data base and yet…

Chibanda: I did not authorise to put any defence and security contract on the data base because the policy of the government of the day was not to include defence and security issues on this.

Chanda: Obviously, for Mr Mbewe to testify there must have been some interactions?

Chibanda: I had no dealings with Mr Mbewe, with Systems and Wilburn on any security contracts. As I told you, he entered as a data entry clerk. [At this point Chibanda starts explaining some procedures in loans and what it means to bridge a loan]

When resources are not available and you have expenditure to meet, you go to the bank and say can you bridge me, if the bank is satisfied…

Magistrate Musona: What is to bridge?

Chibanda: To bridge is to lend me. You received money for Chirundu Border, it is banked through Finance Bank, it will not get to Bank of Zambia in a week and we go to Bank of Zambia and say can you bridge us…? As I said earlier on the bridging loan was non-selective. Debt servicing obligations are external even if you have kwacha and no foreign exchange, you cant…so, we went to Bank of Zambia to lend us some foreign exchange…So, when you have no funds, its not selective to Systems, Wilburn or Zamtrop. Your honour, different governments have different policies. Bridging loans give different…this was just a policy tool. It’s like at the moment government is borrowing through treasury bonds. As government, we did not borrow to construct a school; it was just a policy to meet the shortfall in the kwacha. My role ended at meeting debt servicing obligations.

Chanda: How about the evidence of Mr Mukelabai from PACRO?

Chibanda: Inspection of companies just confirms that. The transaction was between Mr Shimukowa through Zanaco [Zambia National Commercial Bank] and that this company was registered in 2001 which confirmed my submission to the court but contradicting to the court which says the farm was given to Chibanda in 1999 by Mr Xavier Chungu. In 2001 when it was registered and the final payment made and what I gave the court tallies but the count is not reflective of what transpired.

Chanda: In comparison to the state, what is your defence to the evidence of PW 29? I want you to make a comparison between Dr Kalyalya and Noria Ngwenya.

Chibanda: Dr Kalyalya confirmed that he worked with us, he did not confirm that Mrs Ngwenya reported to him an incident where she was threatened. Your honour, Dr Kalyalya informed this court that when the Bank of Zambia was in doubt on processing a payment to Systems Innovations and Wilburn and indeed Zamtrop, they consulted the secretary to the treasury and there is ample evidence on P102 to P108 that shows that the Bank of Zambia always consulted the secretary to the treasury’s office.

Chanda: Look at P130.

Chibanda: P130 is one such payment authorisation dated 28 April 1999 where a Mr Siwale in the Bank of Zambia is being instructed to process for payment. With your permission, I’ll read the instructions. [Chibanda reads the instructions]. So, at no time did Dr Kalyalya come to me complaining about threats to Mrs Ngwenya.

Chanda: Look at P132.

Chibanda: It is dated 1 July 1999, it is a payment authorisation number 132 of 1999… Now, when faced with a threat, the bank of Zambia did not take action. I find that suspicious.

Chanda: Look at P 137, P139, P140 together with P142. Make a general position in the interest of time.

Chibanda: Your honour, P137 dated 30 November 1999, Mr Siwale writes to the deputy governor operations seeking his guidance, the governor of Bank of Zambia Mr Jacob Mwanza approves payments.

P139 is the same process, P140 the same process and P141 the same process your honour.

Chanda: Anything on count one before we move to count two?

Chibanda: Yes your honour. I would have wanted to say that none of the witnesses spoke of an over-payment except for Mr Hamunjele PW 32. Control 63 your honour, the account was audited by the Auditor General from 1993 to date. There was no audit query as regards funding to Zamtrop. Zamtrop was audited by the Auditor General and a report submitted to the President as a requirement by the law. It would have been useful if we had that report before this court to help us understand this overpayment referred to in one of the counts. What we did was funding Zamtrop and the controlling officer…It is the Auditor General’s report that will tell us whether there is an overpayment so far, there is no evidence of an overpayment. And one of the witnesses said I had a legal mandate to sign the payment authorisation and debt even PW 8 who thought I was highly influential. So, there was nothing irregular in what transpired in 2002.

In the civil service, Mr Hamunjele had no legal mandate to audit the Zamtrop account. It is the Auditor General who reports to the President and we should have had that report before this court.

Chanda: That is all on count one.

Chibanda: Yes your honour, there is no issue on the overpayment.

Chanda: Your honour, I wanted to make an application for an adjournment so I can go and reorganise count two, three…want to see how I can organise them since they are talking about specific payments and also save subpoenas to witnesses we intend to call who are about nine. I prepared the subpoenas but they were not served. We want to reorgainse your honour.

Magistrate Musona: I’ll grant you the application.

Chanda: Most obliged

Magistrate Musona: When is the next sitting?

Malambo: 26th your honour.

Magistrate Musona: The matter will stand adjourned to 26 May to commence with count two.

Labels: COURTS, DEBT

posted by MrK @ 2:38 PM