Tuesday, February 12, 2013

(STICKY) (NEWZIMBABWE) Storm over UK motion condemning ZIPRA

COMMENT - It's Kate Hoey again. What is her obsession with Zimbabwe? Didn't she get the MDC memo that only atrocities after 1980 should be used for political gain? But hey, let's have it all out, including war crimes by the likes of Roy Bennett, David Coltart, Eddie Cross an other luminaries in the MDC. After all, Rhodesia under Ian Smith killed 50,000 people.

Storm over UK motion condemning ZIPRA
Downed ... An Air Rhodesia Viscount like the two planes downed by ZIPRA fighters
10/02/2013 00:00:00
by Staff Reporter

ZIMBABWE and Britain are set for a new diplomatic spat over a controversial House of Commons motion by a Labour MP condemning the 1979 shooting down of a passenger plane by ZIPRA fighters.

The Air Rhodesia Viscount Flight RH827 had just taken off from Kariba when it came down on February 12, 1979, after being struck by a Strela 2 missile.

Fifty-five passengers flying to Salisbury, now Harare, and four crew members perished in the incident which came at the height of an armed resistance against white minority rule.

Now at least six British MPs have signed an Early Day Motion proposed by Vauxhall MP Kate Hoey condemning the downing of Flight RH827 – the second such attack after another incident a year earlier in which Air Rhodesia Flight RH825with 56 people on board was shot down by ZIPRA freedom fighters.

In the first attack – also in Kariba – on September 3, 1978, 48 people were killed, 10 of them it is claimed were executed on the ground. There were eight survivors.

Hoey’s motion – which is unlikely to be debated in the Commons but aims to draw attention to the two incidents – coincides with Tuesday’s 34th anniversary of the shooting down of Flight RH827.
The motion, tabled on February 5 and titled ‘Viscount Massacres’, proposes:

“That this House notes that 12 February 2013 will mark the 34th anniversary of the shooting down of Air Rhodesia Viscount Flight RH827 (the Umniati) by members of the Zimbabwe People’s Revolutionary Army (ZIPRA) in the former Rhodesia resulting in the death of all on board; further notes that this was the second such shooting down of civilian airliners by ZIPRA and followed the shooting down of Air Rhodesia Flight RH825 (the Hunyani) by the same means on 3 September 1978; further notes that the 107 victims comprised civilian men, women and children, some of whom survived the crash of the Hunyani and were subsequently murdered on the ground by bayoneting and shooting; further notes that the victims included citizens from Switzerland, Scotland, Belgium, New Zealand, the UK and South Africa; recalls that the failure to officially condemn these atrocities, as articulated in the sermon by the late Very Reverend John da Costa known as The Deafening Silence, was an act of moral cowardice and deplores such failure; and commends the work done by Keith Nell and his Viscount Down Team to ensure that these atrocities are not forgotten and their ongoing efforts to alleviate suffering amongst the pensioner community of Zimbabwe. This motion has been signed by a total of 6 MPs.”

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Early Day Motions are formal proposals submitted for debate in the House of Commons, but very few are actually debated.

The motions are used to publicise the views of individual MPs, drawing attention to specific events or campaigns, and demonstrating the extent of parliamentary support for a particular cause or point of view.

The subject is very emotive and the fact that six British MPs have associated themselves with the motion will be met with anger in Harare.
Dumiso Dabengwa, ZIPRA’s former commander, stormed on Sunday: “When it happened, it was war time.

“We are very curious... they should come in the open and say exactly what they want.”

Dabengwa said worse atrocities were committed by Rhodesian forces, and that the new government in independent Zimbabwe had declared amnesty for all war crimes.

“They [former colonisers] suggested the issue of amnesty and it was taken on board. The amnesty was to make no-one responsible for crimes committed during war time.

“For them it was a way of protecting Ian Smith and company from the atrocities they committed. Since they have moved a motion, shall we go back and mention numerous occasions that they massacred our people?

“They want to start a condemnation war and we will take them on because we have the evidence where British racists and special forces did horrible things to us. Let them start the issue and we will not keep quiet.”

Tendai Kwari, the UK spokesman for the Mavambo-Kusile party led by Simba Makoni, also condemned the motion in a letter to Hoey on Sunday.

He said he was “saddened, annoyed and surprised” by the move, adding: “I would like to remind the Honourable MP that her motion is opening healing wounds, especially amongst black Zimbabweans.

“Thousands of poor Zimbabwean refugees were massacred by the Rhodesians at Tembue and Chimoio [Mozambique]. These two camps had schools and clinics and thousands of people were butchered. We also would demand for answers...”





COMMENTS

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Guest

I think Zimbabwe ought to respond in kind by opening a motion in parliament which condemns the Chimoio atrocities by Rhodesian forces etc... Or better still ignore them and continue to soldier on with the task at hand. When we as Zimbabweans respond to every nonsense dished out by these people, we make ourselves an easy prey. How about we show them that we are actually a progressive people and simply ignore them?

Why the British feel it their right to be involved with the actions of the Rhodies simply speaks volumes about some unfinished business they have with Zimbabwe.

I hope Zimbabweans are smart enough though not to be sucked in. The British know Zimbabwe is headed for good days and this they do not want to see happening. Its always been a Western tactic to sponsor chaos through propaganda and reverse psychology operations.

Enough said...
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bassman01

Small minded ness by intellectually stumped people.Did Britain fight against ZANUs ,zanla and zipra?no!Were Rhodesians sanctioned by the west during the struggle?yes!Were international citizens,not soldiers killed on these planes?yes.The Rhodesians followed this with the bombings in Chimoi.Know your history .
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Gomoguru

Listen white man's flunkey...there was a lot of killing during the wars in Zimbabwe and in war people die because war is a killing enterprise and in war-theatre innocent people are killed. It is irrelevant which side in these wars Britain supported. We have gone way past that. Normal Zimbabweans are only interested in improving their country and their own lives not cheer leading some attention seeking racist. It is bootlicking humanoids like you who wreck havoc in Africa pretending to be champions of human rights and democracy
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bassman01

Please tell me why'white mans flunkey'?Please re-ready post ,and if you have any questions,I will respond
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chrismadondo

MY FRIEND INTERNATIONAL CITIZENS(ZIMBABWEAN REFUGEES) WERE MURDERED IN CHIMOIO,WHY ARE THE BRITISH NOT SAYING ANYTHING ABOUT IT,SECONDLY ZIPRA FORCES OPERATED FROM ZAMBIA SO WHY RETALIATE IN MOZAMBIQUE A ZANLA BASE AND NOT ZAMBIA,KNOW YOUR HISTORY WHY ARE YOU CONDONING THE EVIL ACTIONS OF THE SMITH REGIME
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General Gwabalanda

Tribalism is now criping into your head after all the downing of the viscount actual it was a revange for the chimoyo mascre in the first place and they pink devils did bomb zambia camps too 300 died in FC camp in 1978 with Green leader in command and they many camps which bombed in Zambia where a lot die too namely Nampudwe, JZ where I used be, Maweba, MTD in Solwezi and Mukushi women camp so please Smith was a our common enemy as much as we were.
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Fine

True. Both sides Zanla and Zipra were fighting one enemy and were working together. I like that kind of coorperation, that's why men like Dabengwa, RGM, Chihuri and them who were directly involved understand the whole thing.
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bassman01

Please show me where I condoned Ian Smiths regime
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Jacques Marneweck

THX for making it clear. It was not an attack on soldiers, politicians or even people that stay in Zim. Many of them actually belonged to countries that put sanctions against the ruling party (worst of all women and children). And to make the second part clear they are not asking for trails or money they just want condemnation of the act. Like they officially condemned the acts aimed at civilians as well by the Rhodesian forces. All crimes focused on innocence are inhumane. It does not matter if your are black white ex.
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General Gwabalanda

They must fist condem they own evil acts first and their evil acts did not start in 1978 but 1894 since then the pink devils used kill Africans will nill
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Jacques Marneweck

How did slavery get abolished??? You are talking about evils that got not only talked about but removed b4 anyone of us that got born. They did not just 1 day wake up and say I dont feel like trading slaves anymore there was even wars thought between white people to make sure no African will be enslaved buy a white man ever again look up US civil war. And why the french gave the Americans the statue of liberty. The only people that have never been asked to apologize was the african chiefs and elders that sold their own and anyone they could kidnap to the Brits. Go read a book or go to school or look it up on google. You cant pic witch parts of history suits you needs you need to except the whole truth. The Hutu still have to apologize for the largest recorded african genocide that has ever happened and that has happen in both our live times if you are older than 19.
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chrismadondo

THAT IS THE POINT I WAS TRYING TO PUT ACROSS WHEN YOU LABELLED ME A TRIBALIST
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Fine

Why did they not start by condeming the Chimoio (sp) and Nyadzonya (sp) massacres by their own. Did they condemn the killing and beating of villagers who were suspected of conniving with the freedom fighters, whom they called "terrorists".

Go to hell man. I lost uncles and unties and many relatives to Rhodesian army. I understand it was war, though they attacked any male and young woman they thought could be a tororo. We forgave them and we lived together from 1980, now they think they can teach us something. Again, GO TO HELL and teach some there not Zimbabwe.
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bassman01

Fine-I have read,and re-read Jacques post and I can't find where he condones the killing and beating of villagers etc.I could be wrong tho .If you wouldn't mind setting me straight,I would appreciate it
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Zuda Madhara

They were collaborators in that they had decided to defy the war effort and sanctions imposed on Rhodesia to show their support of the status quo by visiting their kith and kin as an assurance of their support. They got what they were looking for.
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Jacques Marneweck

O yes whatever you need to believe to make killing a 7 year old ok. I am sure that was the case. Rhodesian Security Forces used that same excuse for every African that was killed. That child was clearly a member of ZANLA planning a next bomb.
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TheTribulationTimes

It was a ZIPRA attack and the retaliation was perpetrated against ZANLA forces...
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General Gwabalanda

It was war Zipra or Zanla was just the same in the eyes of Smith killing my brother is as killing me
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TheTribulationTimes

Not to mention the disproportionate use of force...
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bassman01

I agree,these guys are trying the racist route,which I won't pander to.I am not glorifying acts of cruelty,the Chimoi massacre,the downing of the planes or the Gukarahundi .Maybe my English comprehension is hard for them to understand
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TheTribulationTimes

Operation Dingo, also known as the Chimoio massacre, was a major raid conducted by the Rhodesian Security Forces against the ZANLA headquarters of Robert Mugabe at Chimoio and a smaller camp at Tembue in Mozambique from November 23–25, 1977. More than 3,000 ZANLA fighters were reported as killed and 5,000 wounded while only two government troops died and six were wounded.

96 SAS and 48 RLI paratroopers and an additional 40 helicopter-borne RLI troops attacked the camps at 07h45 in the morning to exploit the concentration of forces on the parade ground for morning parade, directly after a strike by the Rhodesian Air Force's aging Canberra and Hunter strike aircraft. In order to strike as many ground targets as possible six mothballed Vampire jets dating from the 1940s were brought back into use for the operation.

A DC-8 airliner was flown over the Chimoio camps 10 minutes before the airstrike as part of a deception plan at which the insurgents dispersed only to reform on parade a few minutes later in time for the main airstrike, the approach of which did not cause alarm due to the ruse of the overflight of the DC-8 minutes earlier. When the first Air Force jets arrived, the assembled ZANLA forces did not take cover again as they assumed it was the DC-7 that was returning. In their first pass, four Canberra bombers dropped 1200 Alpha bombs (Rhodesian-designed anti-personnel fragmentation weapons) over an area 1.1 kilometres long and half a kilometre wide.

Following the initial devastating air strikes by the Canberras, Hunters and Vampire FB9's, as well as ten Alouette III helicopter gunships, engaged opportunity targets in allocated areas which together inflicted the majority of the casualties, while 2 Vampire T11's flew top cover. The paratroopers and heliborne troops were deployed on three sides of the objective into various stop groups and sweep lines, and were effective in killing large numbers of fleeing ZANLA cadres. Nevertheless, the small size of the ground force and the lack of a complete envelopment allowed a number of fleeing ZANLA cadres to escape. The attack on the Chimoio camps on November 23 was repeated two days later at Tembue.
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Jacques Marneweck

understood. it is a war crime as well to use civilian aircraft as decoy's for a military plan as you just posted. I am sure if zim asks for the condemnation of the use of civilian planes that they would agree if they disagree I can understand your feelings and anger on the matter. In WW2 America used civilian transport ships to ship military supplies into Europe the Germans caught onto this plan and started sinking similar ships. Civilians died thanks to this but in the end it was america that put them in danger by committing the first crime. During the war the Germans was painted as purposefully targeting civilian ships but records show that some subs stayed to help civilians when they realized they hit a real civilian target, some could not as it was to close to allied war ships. I am not picking side's both did wrong.
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Fine

Oh I see where you're coming from. I had misunderstood your other post and it got in my nerves.

But still, let's keep our focus on Zim, that is what I am interested in. History of other countries is good but I am not interested in it in this case. They are blamming our freedom fighters, let's talk about that motion. They must stop blamming ZIPRA or ZANLA for anything. It war, they did worse things for more than a century. Nxa.
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Sauron_the_Great

It was war, black people(Civilians, women and children) were being butchered by the white government as well, lets hear the condemnation
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Jacques Marneweck

It's in the media and museums in most of the modern developed world. Watch the program "How Britain was created" Or google it if your tv does not get BBC. They don't mask any ill doings of how they got so powerful. Africa India Europe china america they mention all the wrongs they committed. He speaks frank about the things that was committed a African man that does the same criticizing his history would be called un-African for doing the same.
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Sauron_the_Great

has any MPs signed any motion condemning the atrocities committed by the whites in Zim. I don't care about what they did anywhere else
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Jacques Marneweck

Verbally but I don't believe written. This should have been part of the truth and reconciliation act like we had in SA. But on both sides you will hear after the sorry's and so forth "It was war and these things happen in war." If this has never happened in zim then you should do what this woman has done send in a report asking for the condemnation of those actions first as the Africans was wronged first.
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Cde Manesi

The Rhodesian sanctions were imposed by the UN,but were bust by USA and UK through apartheid SAfricans through which Rhodesian minerals were exported to US,UK and Europe.It's you who know very little about the double standards,double dealing and hypocrisy of the people of the White man.To all the whites,White blood is thicker than blood of all other races.Now you know.
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bassman01

It is possible that I do know little about this,you are quite correct.If history is written by the victors,where do we get true accounts from in order to reference what we think we know,to what actually happened?
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LizardHungwe

White Soul Wrapped In Blackskin,those were nor civilians ,know your facts
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TheTribulationTimes

It called "Disproportionate use of Force."
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Fine

Sometimes in war it is hard to separate enemy and civilian. The enemy can be a civilian at one time and the next moment they are shooting at you. War is war, if you don't utterly destroy your enemy and instill fear in your enemy's camp then you will lose the battles and war.
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TheTribulationTimes

Operation Dingo, also known as the Chimoio massacre, was a major raid conducted by the Rhodesian Security Forces against the ZANLA headquarters of Robert Mugabe at Chimoio and a smaller camp at Tembue in Mozambique from November 23–25, 1977. More than 3,000 ZANLA fighters were reported as killed and 5,000 wounded while only two government troops died and six were wounded.

96 SAS and 48 RLI paratroopers and an additional 40 helicopter-borne RLI troops attacked the camps at 07h45 in the morning to exploit the concentration of forces on the parade ground for morning parade, directly after a strike by the Rhodesian Air Force's aging Canberra and Hunter strike aircraft. In order to strike as many ground targets as possible six mothballed Vampire jets dating from the 1940s were brought back into use for the operation.

A DC-8 airliner was flown over the Chimoio camps 10 minutes before the airstrike as part of a deception plan at which the insurgents dispersed only to reform on parade a few minutes later in time for the main airstrike, the approach of which did not cause alarm due to the ruse of the overflight of the DC-8 minutes earlier. When the first Air Force jets arrived, the assembled ZANLA forces did not take cover again as they assumed it was the DC-7 that was returning. In their first pass, four Canberra bombers dropped 1200 Alpha bombs (Rhodesian-designed anti-personnel fragmentation weapons) over an area 1.1 kilometres long and half a kilometre wide.

Following the initial devastating air strikes by the Canberras, Hunters and Vampire FB9's, as well as ten Alouette III helicopter gunships, engaged opportunity targets in allocated areas which together inflicted the majority of the casualties, while 2 Vampire T11's flew top cover. The paratroopers and heliborne troops were deployed on three sides of the objective into various stop groups and sweep lines, and were effective in killing large numbers of fleeing ZANLA cadres. Nevertheless, the small size of the ground force and the lack of a complete envelopment allowed a number of fleeing ZANLA cadres to escape. The attack on the Chimoio camps on November 23 was repeated two days later at Tembue.
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LizardHungwe

There is no Sin in War nor in Love,Baasman01 was still in his Daddy balls ,so dont waste your time on him
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bassman01

I was 5.some in my family were imprisoned for refusing to fight in the war
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Somthoya

I dont think your analysis is true If the Rhodies wanted to revenge on this one they would have gone to Zambia (zipra was based in zambia) Chimoi was a different mater not related to this one Green Leader is the one who bombed Zambian Camps in retaliation to this incident
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General Gwabalanda

I did not say Rhodesians wanted to revange it was Zapu wanted to revenge the Chimoio mascre by Smith that why some viscount were downed too but that was not the only reason Smith regime was also using civilian planes to first fly over camps then jet fighter come after that is what I saying I was in Zambia at the time of Chimoio too we know what anger it caused us in zambia Zipra even offer to deploy anti air missiles in Mozambique but Zanu was not willing.
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bassman01

It is possible that my analysis is wrong,so I have no problems being corrected with facts.What I see is a problem here is ignorance.If some people dump all whites as being in the 'British ' basket,I see it as being false.Regarding the topic,I find the movement by the Brits as condemning the killing of the international visitors,and not the white Rhodesians here.
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Laughmore Chemtengwende

Yes we need to open up dossiers on all Rhodies who committed untold atrocities and hunt them down like dogs..just before independence they burned down a hell of a lot of incriminating documents ...according to documented reports you could see pillars of smoke as documents vanished...this senile woman MP will know that we are are not playing this time!
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Fine

And Nyadzonya (sp)
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Laughmore Chemtengwende

Like they have no crimes against us....this is a farce...BSAP came here to empower us is that what you are saying MP?, we should do the same mavakutijairira..and what about the Lancaster house constitution? stupid woman...!
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Ngoko

the lunatic now condemn bringers of his xtian religion??
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Laughmore Chemtengwende

f#ck you Ngoko have you no shame/ this is a national issue and you want to invest in petty personal exchanges?..grow up..i had thums uped your Josh Nkomo comment its at 11 now..whatch it drop to 10
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Ngoko

To hell with these morons who are trying to soil the war of Zimbabwe's liberation. Long live the MUKARANGA Joshua Ngomo.
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Elma Sabudo

They are racist bullies ( you should see their patrotic women captured on youtube spewing apartheid bile ) who intentional provoke outrage by stroking morals of a gun ,it is not only Zimbabwe but Argentina and Romania too .Sold Diego Garcia islands to America for airbases decimating the indigenious population .Duped West Papua ( most controlled area and wiping off the indigenous ) now annexed by Indonesia with sweat shops destined for high streets

Misguided hubris to create civil unrest ,manipulate UN Security Council to invade and destroy and then came back to built racking millions .Miltary test trials ,piloted in Libya and will be rolled out to the whole continent .

What do you expect from people who nearly wiped off black people with violence and diseases and stole Australia ,NewZealand and Canada.

And they don't understand why we hate them for slavery and colonialism,.
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Elma Sabundo

Hezvo,ndiri kukanganisa kuverenga here?hehehe @ZuuluShaka adzoka kumusha. If you continue like this @ZuuluShaka aka Elma Sabudo I won't call you a buffoon or my impersonator (rega ndibva ndaita "LIKE" comment yako)kkkkkkk. Hauwone ndokuti kuchangamuka uku.Next time Baba Mugabe demands UN seats for Africa support the magnanimous one to avoid the "Zuma fly-zone" etc kwete kungowomoka sezvawakaita last time coz Tsvangirai had promised MDC buffoons a plane full of cash waiting at @Heathrow Airport provided you vote for his uneducated,flip-flopping & blind buffoon ass.@Mai Jukwa huyai muone @Sabudo uye hehehekkkkk
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Toots

Elma Sabudo had noticed that, due to the fierce resistance and sustained onslaught from the Chimurenga revolutionaries of this website, his reactionary strength had deteriorated over recent months to the extent that he had had to recognize his incapacity to adequately fulfil the puppet ministry entrusted to him by MDC-T.
He said,
"For this reason, and well aware of the seriousness of this act, with full freedom I declare that I renounce the counter-revolutionary ministry of MDC-T puppets'.
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Fine

Elma, whoever you're you sure have a very sharp tongue. If you talk like that face to face you would end up receiving fists in your face from those who are good at the use of physical force.
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LizardHungwe

Uzva Erima ,Daughter of the Soil ,the Spirit of Nehanda ,the Living Chibgwechitedza,batshele Tell them sister I told Mai Jukwa that I I like u,NgokoNgoko urikuenda here kwaSibudo
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Ngoko

however much you claimed you previously sought to get under my skin, I am still trying to come to terms with your sudden switch to an enlightened approach to issues. these Damascus road conversions????????????


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2 Comments:

At 4:41 PM , Blogger MrK said...

(HERALD ZW) House of Commons Rhodie motion ‘a racist stance’
Tuesday, 12 February 2013 00:00
Herald Reporter

Political parties and analysts yesterday joined Zimbabweans in denouncing the move by the British Parliament to move a motion condemning the shooting of Air Rhodesia Viscount RH827 by Zipra forces during the liberation struggle.

The House of Commons, through Labour MP Kate Hoey, classified the shooting as an atrocity that should be commemorated. The MP argued that civilians in the flight were killed and there was a need to give February 12, the day the plane was shot down, official recognition.

Zanu-PF spokesperson Cde Rugare Gumbo described the move as a racist stance.

“It was war time and it was unavoidable,” he said.

“This is a racist stance and it is unnecessary to look at it as it would also open old wounds. It does not help in terms of improving relations between Britain and Zimbabwe.”

Air Rhodesia Flight 827, flown that day by Umniati, was a scheduled flight between Kariba and Salisbury (Harare) that was shot down on February 12, 1979 by Zipra forces soon after take-off in Kariba.

Zipra forces believed Rhodesian Army commander General Peter Walls was in the Viscount plane, but he had changed planes.

None of the 59 passengers or crew survived.

MDC spokesperson Mr Kurauone Chihwayi said the motion had been moved by “misguided elements” in the British Parliament who wanted to discredit the Zipra forces.

“They must give us a chance to build bridges,” he said.

“They must not forget their roles in the Chimoio, Tembwe and Nyadzonya massacres. It is not advisable for them to open old wounds at a time like this when we are still trying to heal from the same wounds.”

 
At 4:42 PM , Blogger MrK said...

Mr Chihwayi added: “We view this as an attempt by some unrepentant Rhodesians to fuel divisions among Zimbabweans at a time we are trying to find each other. Rhodesians committed serious crimes during the war but we forgave them.”

In a statement, Mavambo Kusile Dawn’s Tendai Kwari said the motion was opening healing wounds.

“I would like to remind MP Kate Hoey that thousands of poor Zimbabwean refugees were massacred by the Rhodesians at Tembwe and Chimoio,” he said.

“These two camps had schools and clinics and thousands of children were butchered. We also would demand for answers and an investigation should be carried out.

“In the Operation Dingo, also known as the Chimoio massacre, more than 3 000 Zanla fighters were reportedly killed and 5 000 wounded while only two Rhodesian government troops died and six were wounded.”

Mr Kwari said the attacks at Chimoio were horrible.

“When the first Air Force jets arrived, the assembled Zanla forces did not take cover again as they assumed it was the DC-7 that was returning.

“In their first pass, four Canberra bombers dropped 1200 Alpha bombs (Rhodesian-designed anti-personnel fragmentation weapons) over an area 1,1 kilometres long and half a kilometre wide.

“MP Hoey, I do hope you were not forced to present this motion by former Rhodesians, who can still not accept that a black man in Zimbabwe should be the master of that land,” he said.

He said Zimbabwean victims should be compensated by the British Government.

Political analyst Dr Charity Manyeruke said the incident was “unfortunate” but the Britons should understand that it was war time.

“Civilians can be killed and planes can be shot down during war time unless the planes have red cross symbols as required by the International and Humanitarian law,” she said.

“There was no way the Zipra forces could have identified that the flight had civilians. In any case, we lost thousands of people but we pardoned them. What they are doing is raising emotions on people who were wounded and are still wounded.”

Thousands of Zimbabweans, mainly defenceless refugees, were massacred at camps in Mozambique, Zambia and Angola by Rhodesian elite forces during the liberation struggle.

The British have not condemned such massacres that attracted the attention of the United Nations.

 

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