Maravi

Magande was Levy's preference - Maureen

Magande was Levy's preference - Maureen
By Amos Malupenga
Sunday August 31, 2008 [04:00]

First lady Maureen Mwanawasa yesterday disclosed that President Levy Mwanawasa preferred finance minister Ng'andu Magande to succeed him. In an interview at State House, Maureen said there were ministers who knew about Magande being the preferred successor. She said it would be nice for these ministers to come out and speak the truth instead of letting former commerce minister Dipak Patel to say it when he is not a member of Cabinet.

Maureen said although President Mwanawasa preferred Magande, it does not mean that the democratic principles must be dispensed with because even if the President was around, he would have subjected Magande to the same democratic principles as his preferred candidate.

Maureen said she was saying this at the risk of being misunderstood that she is not mourning her late husband. She said as far as she was concerned, she would mourn him forever.

“If people say give her two weeks or six months before she can open her mouth on anything, that will not be enough because I will mourn him forever…” Maureen said. “I am saying this with a lot of courage and boldness and without fear or favour because I know I am surrounded by enemies.

But I want to warn them that I am so strong. They shouldn't think that I am saying this from a weak position. I am a leader and therefore I must show leadership as I speak to the large masses who are going to read the message that you are going to give.

“Therefore, what I have said, I have said it with responsibility on my shoulder. I am able to defend every statement that you are going to write down. I would rather go down saying the right thing than be glorified for embracing things which will not do any good to the nation. The Mwanawasa legacy must be carried forward by honest people. If they are not, we will reach a separation stage.”

And Maureen disclosed that President Mwanawasa had left a recorded message to the nation which will be shown on national television the day after his burial on Wednesday September 3. Maureen said according to the family lawyer who has had custody of the tape, the message was recorded on video in 2005. She was not aware of it because the late President Mwanawasa kept it as a secret.

Below is the verbatim report of the interview with Maureen.

Question: May I start by thanking you very much for giving me an opportunity to discuss some national issues at the time like this when you are mourning the passing away of your dear husband and friend. We are mourning with you, the whole country is mourning with you on this great loss. Please, accept our deepest condolences.

But even as we are all mourning, a lot of things are happening; press statements are daily being issued. The one statement that immediately comes to my mind is the one saying that you should be allowed to contest the MMD presidency so you can finish the term of office for President Mwanawasa which expires in 2011.

What is your position on this matter?

Answer: Before I discuss my position on this issue, I want to say that it's a very difficult time for me and my family. I am sure I also speak on behalf of the nation that the death of my husband who has been President of the Republic of Zambia, has robbed us an opportunity for us to take the country forward and has created a leadership gap which everyone thought would only come in 2011 when the President would have retired.

I must admit that, yes, on several occasions I have been called upon to say that I am one of those people could look for to lead the nation. But I never thought that the call would repeat itself soon before 2011. I remember that I gave an interview to The Post in which I said 'I am in the reserve as a leader, where there is need for some of us to be called upon to lead the country, we would be available'.

But I never thought that the leadership gap will come through death which affects me so much because this is my husband whom we are talking about; a very close friend, a person I have spent more than 20 years with. It is not as easy as that for me to jump on the bandwagon and declare that I must stand.

I believe that this is the time for me to stand in the gap and remind the leaders and those who will be vying for positions what Mwanawasa stood for and whether any of our names being called upon are ready to take the mantle.

Q: To your knowledge, what did Mwanawasa stand for?

A: It is very difficult to describe Mwanawasa's stand in one word. He is a man of integrity. We all know that. He is one man who had courage, bold enough to make tough decisions which would even affect him personally, which affected his personality.

But the difference is that it was not about him. It was about national interest. And on several occasions, he reminded us that 'if I make a decision and that decision is not in the interest of Zambians', as a President he was bold enough to reverse it. This is the kind of man that we are discussing today, a man who wavered opposition even inside government where he had to take bold decisions.

Q: There is so much being said about the Mwanawasa legacy now in his death. When you hear such statements, what is it that come to your mind?

A: The legacy must be protected at all cost. It means we must look for someone who will nearly match the qualities of Mwanawasa. The reminders are even coming from military people. The message that we received when the body of President Mwanawasa was brought was clear to all of us and directed at those people who wanted to vie for leadership; that the person who wants to lead this country should follow the footsteps of President Mwanawasa and that he should not temper by negatively destroying the foundation that has been laid; the progress that has been made in all sectors - politically, economically, technologically, socially and culturally. Mwanawasa has been able to bring these factors and leveled them.

Because of the fiscal policies he put in place, Zambia now is proud to even talk about reserves at our central bank which was never existed. ZRA (Zambia Revenue Authority) can now talk about the revenue which is coming in the country.

Regardless of what levels of society, Zambians will talk about the positive impact of the Mwanawasa administration even if they are just selling tomatoes in the market. They will say 'I used to have problems to have capital at the market'.

So we are talking about a President and policies which touched every level of society and everybody; whether you were a child, male or female, adult, working or you are in private sector. Mwanawasa managed to bring an environment suitable for everybody. This did not come on a silver plate. We had a visionary leader. You cannot be leader and not be able to have ideas about where you are taking the country.

Therefore, we want to ensure that that leader who should emerge should emerge at a level where these reserves I have talked about must be protected at all cost because the President had an agenda to say that having stabilised the macro-economics of this country, he wanted these resources to start trickling down to an ordinary man on the street.

And every time in his speeches, you are witnesses on how worried he was on the poverty levels in Zambia and how he wanted to make changes and these changes have already started. How do we continue with the levels which Mwanawasa created?

We need to look for a person who has management capacity, someone who can jealously guard these reserves. And this should remain within MMD because we know that for Mwanawasa to ascend to power, the opposition were not the right people to lead the nation. Therefore, this power lies inside.

And when we look at the candidates that are there, this is the yardstick which we should use. Are they transparent? Are they sincere? Do they have managerial and financial skills which we should use to look after the resources? What is there background?

It's not about politics. Politics are there as a stepping-stone. At the end of the day, we need to look after the nation. It's about MMD, except that MMD right now is the vehicle which has the power base.

President Mwanawasa didn't finish his term. But if we do not bring in a good manager it means that the reserves that we are talking about; if we have leaders whom we know are bad managers, this money will go back to where Zambia was.

The corruption will set. Right now the investors and local entrepreneurs are looking to say 'where is the nation?' They are waiting to be told that now the person at the helm of it is trustworthy and can look after the resources.

So those people will be making a decision on whom to choose. Let us not look at what you can gain at a personal level from that person you want to put in power. Mwanawasa ensured that corruption should be done away with even at party level. Therefore, we should not allow corruption to decide the fate of this country.

As for me, I want to connect the legacy of Mwanawasa and the choosing of the person that is going to look after that legacy. If the legacy is going to be associated with a corrupt leader on 5th September, I want to state that we will not accept that. We don't want Mwanawasa's legacy to be marred with things which he rejected when he was alive. It is us the people who are alive today who should protect that legacy for the interest of our children, our future and the nation and Africa because Mwanawasa set standards not only for Zambia. He set standards for Africa. So we must choose a leader who will be able to articulate what Mwanawasa stood for.

Q: This point brings me to the contradictions the country has witnessed among government ministers. In the last few days, some ministers have said that the President had intimated that he preferred finance minister Ng’andu Magande to be the one to have carried forward his vision for the country after 2011 while others are saying it was not so.

Actually, I have heard some minister(s) saying that the preferred person is the Acting President Rupiah Banda because President Mwanawasa chose him as his number two and left him acting when left the country…

Being a wife to the President, I want to believe that you either knew something about this issue or you discussed the matter or you were told about it. What do you have to say on this issue?

A: It's very important that people must be sincere and put their personal interests aside when discussing such important issues because if I want, I can even tell you that 'Mwanawasa wanted me'. I want to state that Mwanawasa knew my capacity, my strong political capacity to lead the country but he said it would be morally wrong for him to say 'you have my wife as my replacement'.

I can tell you that this man was being led by God. Elections were very far in 2011 but he started preparing, looking at the people in MMD leadership who can take the mantle. There are ministers who can bear witness that he had at least three names which he was studying about a year or so, ago.

He had the name of foreign affairs minister Kabinga Pande, he had the name of finance minister Ng'andu Magande. Those I clearly know that he mentioned them. And after sometime, he had remained with one name as far as I am concerned.

Q: Which name was that?

A: It was the Magande name. The President asked for my opinion. I discussed the name. He knew that he had strengths and weaknesses, but the strengths outweighed the weaknesses.

And the President believed that the weaknesses were too minor, they could be worked on by 2011. He was looking for a manager. He was worried about where we should take this country to.

Of course, by him entertaining a name, he realised we are living in a democratic environment. At the end of the day, that name had to be presented to NEC (national executive committee) and of course we all know that elections are open and people should compete.

So one question we should be asking ourselves is: what would have been at the back of the mind of President Mwanawasa to look at Magande? The President created a team. For you to have a good a financial manager, which attribute is in Magande, and a visionary leader - together they made a very good partnership. Everyone knew that Magande was hard to release money anyhow unjustified.
President Mwanawasa was hard; you must convince him if you are going to spend money, how are you going to spend it.

This is what has brought credibility to Zambia because the President removed corruption, though not hundred percent. But now even my grand mother in the village know that public resources are not personal resources and they should be respected. Therefore, we need a person with a clean slate, a person we know that they are going to guard these resources jealously.

It's difficult to express in words what Mwanawasa would like to see now. He would want to see the continuity of what he started and build on because he has left resources which are there. A lot of things have been discovered in terms of minerals and other things we must put to good use.

But as people decide who becomes a leader after him, they must bear in mind that we need a near Mwanawasa man. He cannot be hundred percent Mwanawasa because God has created us differently. But how near can we go? This is the question we should be asking ourselves.

Q: This Magande name, did you finish telling me what could have been at the back of the President's mind when he settled for it?

A: Obviously, you know that there are some issues we as first ladies are privileged to know by virtue of being wives. Also, as first ladies, we have information. We whisper to the heads of state so that whatever little information we have, they also know.

So someone might say, 'she is just a first lady so she cannot be telling us that these were the wishes of the President'. But right now, I am the next of kin. Therefore, I believe that what I am saying is not a family position. But I have the responsibility to guide the nation on the thoughts of the President who is not with us now to manage the process.

The President always reminded us that he will not ask for a third term. He kept on reminding us the he is retiring in 2011. Everything that he planned was supposed to end. But as nature has it, he has departed from us too early.

Therefore, we should rely on the last thoughts he had. In these thoughts, he didn't want Zambia to be caught be napping. So he started preparing, looking around within and the last name he talked about was Magande as far as I am concerned. And there are ministers, if they are sincere, who can testify to this name. But that does not mean that democracy must be dispensed with. Also it does not mean that us the Mwanawasas are imposing a leader.

That is why there is this structure of the party that they must choose. All we can do is to try to pre-empt the thinking of the President instead of keeping it to us because this is supposed to be public information.

If Mwanawasa was here today and it was time for elections, he was going to present the name at the end of the day. Also, the Cabinet ministers must be sincere. What did the President say in the last Cabinet meeting which he had with them?

After that Cabinet meeting, the President shared with me the discussion he had in Cabinet concerning the issue of succession.

The President did give an indication in Cabinet. He gave an example that Kaunda was succeeded by Chiluba who was younger and that he himself succeeded Chiluba and he was younger than Chiluba. His wish was also that he should be succeeded by a person either younger than him or his age mate because, he said, the job of a President is very demanding. It needs energy for you to deliver because the demands are huge.

Q: When you look back and to the best of your recollection, what were the President's thoughts on leadership?

A: In fact, I can tell you that because our family lawyer has told me that the President has left two wills, which at an appropriate time we will be able to discuss or disclose the contents to both parties. There is a will or wish for the nation and there is a will for the family. But I want to emphasise on the will for the nation.

The lawyer has not disclosed the contents but I believe, knowing and having lived with this President as my husband, I am positively sure that he must have discussed issues regarding the leadership for the country; not necessarily naming a person but giving principles and guidelines on how he would like the nation to be run.

When I heard about this tape, it sent a lot of shivers in me because no one could have thought that a leader like Mwanawasa could have predicted and confronted life as real to show that death is there for all of us.

It doesn't matter who you are, death can come; that we should continue asking ourselves: where are we taking this Mwanawasa legacy? How jealously should we guard it?

Q: Has the lawyer told you when that will for the nation was recorded?

A: He told me it was recorded in 2005.

Q: Did you know about it?

A: I did not.

Q: When is the nation going to be given the opportunity to view this video?

A: I am reliably informed by State House staff that it will be broadcast on 4th of September. Probably, they will give it more days to be shown to the public because soon after burial, some of us might not be in a position to sit in front of televisions. But I am sure it will be given prominence. All of us should take an interest to sit in front of our televisions and hear our President speaking to us while in the grave. It's unprecedented. It's something unimaginable.

And this is what creates what Mwanawasa was. We are calling him great. But I think there are no better words to describe. And for me, I keep on asking myself: 'what kind of a person did I live with?'

He was a person who was so great but never exhibited this greatness. He exhibited kindness, selflessness, loving, high integrity, humble; he displayed humility. These are the things we want to see in our leaders.
If there are things you need to change about yourself to fit the Mwanawasa framework, you just have to do that because Zambians will not accept anything short of that.

Armed with this information, I will be irresponsible to decide to enter the race. I know all of us do not believe in the spiritual realm. We all believe, if you want to be pure Christians, that Mwanawasa has died and it is finished.

But my conscience will trouble me if I do not say what he would have wanted to say if he was here today. My conscience would trouble me if I cheated the nation that Mwanawasa wanted me because I could easily say that.

May I just say that the nation should not misunderstand me; that I am not mourning my husband. For me, even if you gave me six months, it is not enough.

I am going to mourn my husband throughout my life. But I hope future widows, and I don't wish anybody to be in my position, should know that it is very difficult. Even now when I am moving, it's like I am watching a movie about the death of my husband and yet it is real.

I miss him. He was my closest friend. I shared my life with him. My children are still very young, my family still needs him. Therefore, nobody should say I am not mourning. I am going to mourn my husband until I am also called to rest.

So no one can say 'give her two weeks or six months that is when she can open her mouth'. I have been left with this responsibility to say what I am saying today because the world being what it is, there is no time for these things. If I don't say them now but say them after 5th September, for what good will this disclosure be?

This is just to guide that these were the thoughts. I want the people to appreciate that Mwanawasa did not leave us without any thoughts about leadership. And I am repeating, I am not the only one privy to this information. How good it will be to hear it from ministers than from Dipak Patel who is not a Cabinet minister.

When you are searching for a leader, you don't search alone. You search among trusted ministers. The President must have confided in other ministers to say 'this is my thinking'. And if I wanted to be politically expedient, I could take the easiest position so that I flock with those making the loudest noise.

But I am taking this position in national interest by stating what the President's wishes were.

Also, I am trying to avoid losing this legacy whose term is still Mwanawasa's. We should remind ourselves as MMD that the candidate we choose on the 5th is not our party's. We are sending this candidate to the country which is a more vicious environment. Can the person we are going to arrive on withstand the storm?

All of us can campaign in our constituencies, but the people would like to see that person speak to us and convince Zambians that that is the leader. It doesn't matter how much money is going to be thrown about, how many people will be sent in the field. There has to be somebody to carry the vision and that somebody must articulate what Mwanawasa articulated.

We want to know that we have a person who can articulate the Fifth National Development Plan and the Vision 2030. These are not simple things! You need someone who can marry these things to the manifesto of MMD; and also to remind ourselves that leadership is that which can withstand the external environment. These are not internal politics. Technical issues will be raised after we come out of our internal NEC on 5th September to join the national politics.

Mwanawasa was an outstanding man as far as his character was concerned. Issues of character will become an issue. Historical background will become an issue. Are you a disciplinarian in terms of looking after the resources of the country?

So let us weigh the weaknesses and the strengths. If the strengths are more in terms of looking after the nation, that is the way we should go. We can cure the little weaknesses that are there.

Q: In conclusion, what would you like to say?

A: I would like to conclude by saying that the death of the President has hit me and my family very hard and I want to spend time to mourn him properly, spend time to stabilise my family because we have lost a person like him; the head of the family.

I had some political aspirations, I still entertain those aspirations but they are not for now because this is not what I planned for.

So I wish those people who have gone for the race good luck and that they must make a commitment to the country that they are going to be the next Mwanawasas because that is what we are looking for; that they are going to use the resources that are there properly and I ask the MMD that this power is in MMD. Let us be sincere with ourselves. Let us put one candidate whom we know can be a Mwanawasa.

Because of his legacy, some of us will be disappointed if this power shifted to the opposition because of the disunity in the party and personal interest that we are going to put forward. Also, remember that Zambia belongs to all Zambians and these Zambians are going to judge us whether or not we have sincerely mourned Mwanawasa and put in place systems which should continue.

Zambians are not going to allow people whom we know cannot deliver to be in that seat. So the NEC for MMD should not look at the decision they are making as a party programme.

This is a national programme because the power is already with MMD. Therefore, they must focus wider that much as they are just NEC, they are carrying on their shoulders the responsibility of all Zambians at this particular moment. Therefore, their decision is not about party politics, is not about party appeasement.
Mwanawasa stopped the brown envelope, even in party circles. What he did was to ensure that he created an economic environment where anybody can thrive, even if you are a party cadre.

This is what we want to continue. We don't want to eat today and be hungry tomorrow. Mwanawasa gave us the fishing rods and we do not want to lose the fishing rods and go back to beg.

And we want to warn that even those who will be chosen at the end of the day even if they are like Mwanawasa, they must know that Mwanawasa had a light heart, Mwanawasa had programmes, Mwanawasa wanted to spend public resources in the interest of the nation. They must build on and not destroy.

Q: Thank you so much for this opportunity. I know you are mourning but we had to drag you into this interview because I thought there are serious national issues to be discussed and clarified even in the midst of our funeral. Our deepest condolences once again.

Labels: MAGANDE, MAUREEN, MMD, PRESIDENCY

posted by MrK @ 9:39 AM