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(NEWZIMBABWE) Interview: ex-MP Abednico Bhebhe

Interview: ex-MP Abednico Bhebhe
by Lance Guma
17/08/2009 00:00:00

The Mutambara MDC expelled three legislators after accusing them of undermining the party and its leadership. Nkayi South MP Abednico Bhebhe, Njabuliso Mguni (Lupane East) and Norman Mpofu (Bulilima East) have since taken the dispute to the Supreme Court after the High Court dismissed an initial application. SW Radio Africa's Lance Guma traces the history behind the dispute in an interview with Bhebhe:

Interview Broadcast: August 6, 2009

Lance Guma: Hello Zimbabwe and welcome to another special edition of Behind the Headlines. This week we have as our special guest the Member of Parliament for Nkayi South Abednico Bhebhe. Now you will be aware that the Mutambara MDC has expelled 3 Members of Parliament including Mr. Bhebhe and Njabuliso Mguni the MP for Lupane East and Norman Mpofu the MP for Bulilima East. So what we are trying to do today on the programme is to trace the history of this dispute and just have a rough idea of what happened then and what is happening now. Mr. Bhebhe thank you very much for joining us.

Abednico Bhebhe: Thank you.
Lance: Okay, when did the problems begin? We know the MDC split up in 2005. But in terms of problems within the Mutambara MDC that have led to this, when would you say the problems started emerging?

Bhebhe: The problems started emerging soon after the split in 2005 because some of us were very much strong on the issue of us renegotiating our re-engagement or coalition with the Morgan Tsvangirai side because the people on the ground did not understand what was the cause and why we failed to solve our differences and merge the party together. So there was pressure from the ground, there was pressure from the electorate because they believed that when we come together as one formation or as one party or as a coalition, we were going to be sure that we would beat Zanu PF hands down.

Even if you add the results that came out on the 29th of March 2008 elections they were actually showing that if we had gone into the elections as a united force we were going to be in government right now. So the actual problems started then, because there were some within the leadership that believed that there was no way we could come together with the Tsvangirai formation and as I speak right now those same people within the leadership they are saying there is no way that they can work with Tsvangirai. So it is actually some egos that are destroying the hopes of the Zimbabweans.

Lance: Did they give any particular reason why they were objecting to working with the Tsvangirai MDC?

Bhebhe: Of course the strongest reason was the obvious one that after the vote that was taken on the 12th of October (2005) Tsvangirai defied the vote and decided to go against the vote. So they are still holding onto that. But our argument is that even in a family, a wife and husband, they clash sometimes, the other would even pick up his bags and go to his original home but that does not mean that two people that have come together, that have lived together for quite some years cannot resolve their differences and come together. But we are seeing that happen in politics. It is one of those things that some people might, in my own belief, some people are actually holding on to that to make sure that they benefit the then ruling party Zanu PF.

Lance: A lot of people who have been following this story say matters really came to a head when Lovemore Moyo was elected the speaker of parliament and that your party was very unhappy that several of its legislators had voted for Mr. Moyo instead of their preferred candidate Paul Themba Nyathi. Is it true that this is what really changed the dynamics within your party and people started looking for people to fire?

Bhebhe: Yes, but let me clear up something first before I answer that question. The problem with politics in Zimbabwe is that it is so much aligned, it has followed the trend of Zanu PF for so many years such that the politics in Zimbabwe is about, if you talk of the party you are talking about the leadership, but unfortunately if you are talking about the party, it should be the people, the card carrying members, the sympathizers, together they form a party but unfortunately the situation in Zimbabwe does not show that on the ground.

It is actually the leadership that claim that they are the party. In this instance we were shocked right to the bone marrow that on the eve of voting for the speaker of parliament we were told directly by Zanu Pf that our leadership had agreed that we were going to vote for the speaker of parliament with Zanu PF instead of our colleagues that we have got the same ideology which is MDC-T.

We were actually shocked to learn that and knowing that we were representatives of the people from our constituencies it was very difficult for us to stomach that and vote with Zanu PF, lest we go back to our constituencies and we fail to explain to the people why all of a sudden we are seeing Zanu PF as a darling now. So that was where the problem started. And apparently knowing we had people that voted for us we had to do the wishes of the people. And the wishes of the people were, we were supposed to negotiate for anything that we had to do in parliament, we are supposed to negotiate with the Tsvangirai formation not Zanu PF. So we then decided to listen to the people.

Unfortunately, because the leadership are actually not listening to the people, of which as it is today they lost the elections because they are not keen to listen to the people and they tried to force us not to listen to the people that voted for us and whip us into line to vote with Zanu PF.

We therefore refused to vote with Zanu PF and we don’t regret why we refused to vote with Zanu PF. As far as we are concerned we are heroes in our constituencies because we listen to the people and not the leadership. And the leadership we told them point blank that will not happen. If it is anything to do with Zanu PF we are not going to be part and parcel of that decision and then things came to a head. All that is being said…inaudible…. between out party and MDC-T is all fallacy. The truth of the matter is that these people don’t want to come out in the open that they have actually indirectly joined Zanu PF and they are pushing us to join Zanu PF. Therefore we are saying, as long as they are trying to push us to join Zanu PF, we are not going to do that, we would rather leave politics than join Zanu PF.

Lance: Now the MDC-M Secretary General Professor Welshman Ncube described you and your colleagues as an enemy within. Would you say that is fair criticism because the is saying if you were pursuing an ideology that is different from the party leadership you effectively constituted an enemy within?

Bhebhe: Unfortunately that is the opposite because if we are an enemy within, we constitute the majority within the party. So the one who is supposed to be an enemy is the one who is in the minority. In this case Welshman Ncube is a minority in the party. If he claims that we an enemy, then he is the enemy himself because he is the minority in the party. He does not command the support that we command. Right now he went and organized two rallies in Nkayi where they were two T-35 trucks that were supposed to be ferrying people around for a celebration, that I don’t know what he was celebrating and he slaughtered a beast each in those two rallies that took place on Saturday and Sunday.

And to my surprise or his surprise or whether he knew it his first rally he got 38 people with two T-35 trucks that were supposed to ferry people and on the other one he got 61 people with again the two T-35’s that were supposed to ferry people. It just shows his an enemy within the party. If he insists that we are an enemy, let’s go back to the people instead of going to the press, instead of abusing the laws like Zanu PF has always done.

Lance: A lot of people were shocked when Tsvangirai appointed you to his cabinet and following a lot of pressure and political maneuvers he eventually made a u-turn and dropped you from that cabinet line up. Can you maybe just remind our listeners, what exactly happened and who exactly objected to you being a minister in this new cabinet?

Bhebhe: Unfortunately what happened is two weeks before the announcement by Tsvangirai was made I was actually told by the Prime Minister himself and then I informed my President who is Arthur Mutambara who actually agreed with me and he went on to have a conversation with Morgan Tsvangirai and they agreed that I should be appointed. But unfortunately Arthur Mutambara had a lot of pressure from his colleagues particularly Welshman Ncube, Priscilla Misihairambwi and Fletcher Dulini Ncube.

He had a lot of pressure and we that pressure he decided to rescind his earlier decision with Tsvangirai that I should be appointed. And to add salt into a bleeding wound it was Mutambara who went and lobbied Robert Mugabe. When they sat as three principals Mugabe as well refused, saying that he was not going to appoint me, neither nominate me nor swear me in.

Lance: So matters have come to a head, three MP’s expelled, yourself, MP Mguni and MP Mpofu, you’ve since taken the matter to court arguing that proper procedures were not followed. What do you mean by that in terms of procedure, why do you feel aggrieved?

Bhebhe: Right, first and foremost when you are talking of procedure. Our aims and objectives, the aims and objectives of the party are very clear. They hinge on democracy, transparency, accountability and fair justice. Those are the four pillars of our aims and objectives of our party and in that regard the National Disciplinary Committee is one of the organs of our party. Being one of the organs of our party if they are to enquire anything about a mishap or about any allegations they are supposed to enquire within the structures of the party. Here I’m talking about the wards, the branches, the districts, the province.

So in that regard (Lyson) Mlambo did not consult those structures. He then decided to punish us without consulting these structures on the ground. This is why we are saying that thing was kangaroo and that thing was not legitimate and that thing was flawed. That’s one. The second thing is the accusations that are leveled against us are not true. There are no structures that have been merged with the Tsvangirai formation as they are alleging. We have not addressed any rally in the constituency denigrating the leadership. So if they insist that we addressed a rally and denigrated the leadership. They should prove to us by going back to those structures, because all the rallies that we conduct in our constituencies are organized by the structures.

They should go through those structures and enquire whether we did address those rallies. The third thing is we demanded that right if you are accusing us of anything can you tell us who is the complainant? That’s one. Can you show us your witnesses or give us your statement and be precise on the charges that on a particular date, at a particular venue this is what you said and these are the witnesses so that we answer to that and then in the same process we are able to organize our own witnesses to come and testify in our favour.

So that did not happen. When we tried to insist to Mlambo that no, let’s have the names of those people that are complainants, lets have your analysis of the inquiry. He refused and insisted that he is not going to tell us who the structures are. Then we were so shocked and worried that look unless and until our party is operating on the level of Zanu PF were CIO’s are made to follow behind people and investigate them, then we are not going to be part and parcel of that kind of a kangaroo court cause we need things that are transparent and accountable like what is required by our own constitution.

Lance: Okay so we will await with keen interest the conclusion of that court hearing but just my final question, your party has already written to parliament advising that you are no longer MPs. This obviously means maybe we will be having by-elections very soon and the agreement that stops the major parties from competing against each other, we understand expires around the 15th September. After the 15th of September do you see yourself contesting in your constituency, maybe under the Tsvangirai MDC, what are you likely to do then?

Bhebhe: I will deal with that question when September 15 has gone past. But for now I can tell you the issue of writing a letter to parliament was so scandalous, it was between Mlambo the chairman of the disciplinary committee and Welshman Ncube the Secretary General. They actually abused their offices to do that kind of an exercise. The National Council has not sat to review or endorse our expulsion but already Welshman Ncube has already written to parliament. That is in violation of our own constitution. (The National Council a week after this interview eventually met).

So if the Secretary General can be allowed to violate the constitution willy-nilly like that, then we don’t have a party at all. We have got a company, a private company that is got a chief executive, who is Secretary General. In this case he has to consult, he has to actually have the endorsement of the National Council for him to be able to write to parliament. In the first place the Secretary General does not take instructions from the National Disciplinary Committee neither does our constitution allow him to take instructions from that committee, but he only takes instructions from National Council. So why as a lawyer he needed to do that, God knows?

[EDITOR'S NOTE: As a negotiator to the power sharing agreement that gave birth to the unity government, Professor Welshman Ncube has explained that as long as vacancies arose before September 14, 2009, by-elections -- even those held after that date -- will still not be contested by the other parties to the agreement. READ MORE]

Lance: If I can just squeeze in one more question. What is the position of the other 7 MP’s who were not affected by this disciplinary hearing. Do you have the support of your colleagues? Do you have any idea what their position is on this matter?

Bhebhe: Out of the 7 MP’s I can safely tell you that four MP’s are sympathising with us, they are behind us and that is a fact and it is known it is there for everyone to confirm that actually four MP’s are behind us. Even those other three some of them are sympathetic but the problem is that they are timid, they are cowards, they cannot stand up and say they are in support of us.

Lance: That was the Nkayi South Member of Parliament Abednico Bhebhe joining us on Behind the Headlines. MP Bhebhe thank you very much for being our guest.

Bhebhe: Thank you.

Labels: ABEDNICO BHEBHE, ARTHUR MUTAMBARA, INTERVIEW, MDC

posted by MrK @ 7:54 PM