‘I’m not a Western puppet’
ZIMBABWE’S constitution-making process has begun in earnest with the outreach teams gathering views from people across the political divide. Ironically, the National Constitutional Assembly, which for more than a decade has campaigned for a new constitution, has distanced itself from this inclusive process. Features Editor Isdore Guvamombe (IG) talks to NCA chairperson Dr Lovemore Madhuku (LM) about the organisation’s stance and the constitution-making process.
IG: For a long time, you have been campaigning for a new constitution for Zimbabwe and here is an opportunity for your organisation to participate in the inclusive process. What is your contribution to the new process.
LM: NCA is not participating in this process. It is chaotic and a waste of resources… a waste of time and other things… You can actually add on your own adjectives.
IG: So NCA is not participating?
LM: Don’t tell me you don’t know that. As NCA we are totally opposed to the current process. We totally reject it. Everyone in Government knows that we are not participating.
IG: Why?
LM: No constitution-making process is left to politicians. A constitution is about the people. It is people-driven. You have a scenario where each political party is telling people what to say and you call that a constitution?
We are totally opposed to that process. A constitution needs an independent commission or body comprising stakeholders from all over. The current arrangement is that the ruling parties are running the affairs of the committee.
They are telling people what to say.
IG: Are you saying politicians should not be involved?
LM: We are not saying politicians should not be involved. They have a big role to play. They must just ensure that the process takes place and not tell people what to do. They must just wait for the people’s views, then draft it into the draft constitution.
IG: What is your way forward?
LM: In short, we are not taking part. We hope there is going to be a referendum after this flawed process and we will campaign for a no vote. This process is not inclusive as you claim. We are only participating in so far as we are watching what is happening. We need to know what they are doing and like anyone else you need to know what your opponent or enemy is planning. We just hope there will be a referendum and we will definitely win.
IG: Are you sure?
LM: Yes, we will certainly win.
IG: Do you have the resources to campaign against this process?
LM: We definitely do have the resources but there is really not much to campaign for because the process has already de-campaigned itself. In fact, we need no new resources.
The current process has decampaigned itself. It is self-defeating. We will just tell the people that the process was not credible.
You see, the ballot of the referendum itself has a No or Yes. It is giving people no option and therefore is not credible. Citizens of this country do have an opinion, even if NCA did not exist. We do not need resources.
Citizens of this country want their constitution not this one. They know what they want.
IG: You are regarded a puppet of the West. So the West is funding you in this process?
LM: No! No! No! Things have changed. The West is funding the current process, which is not credible and not us.
We have since stopped receiving any funding from the West. If anything, those participating in this current process are the puppets of the West. Not us!
The West is not a prostitute, it cannot fund those making the constitution and at the same time fund those opposed to it.
You don’t know what is happening. They have withdrawn from us. If there is anyone receiving money from the West, it is the inclusive Government. The inclusive Government has become a puppet of the West.
Members of Copac are receiving US$75 per day from the West and we are getting nothing. We don’t need their money, we have our own resources.
IG: Is it true that you have deployed your people all over?
LM: Deploying people? We do not deploy people. Our people are all over the country. Our people are everywhere. Deploying means you think we have people in one place and then we send them somewhere. Wherever the outreach teams go, there are our people there.
I know Copac is crying that we are deploying people. We are not a Harare or Bulawayo group, we are all over the Zimbabwe and we receive reports from there, everyday.
Copac meetings are public meetings and deploying means NCA is not there. Every Copac meeting will have NCA people there.
We have full information from these meeting to support our cause at the referendum.
The puppet status you talk about has been overtaken by events. It is now the inclusive Government working for the West.
They cannot even sell diamonds, waiting for the West’s stamp.
I am sure if we wanted money from the West, we would have gone along with the inclusive Government in the current process and get the money. We are opposing the West, through opposing the process they are funding.
IG: For how long are you going to oppose the constitution-making process in this country?
LM: For as long as it is not done properly. The people must make their constitution.
At the moment, we are waiting for the referendum and there we are going to show that we are totally opposed to the process. We are totally opposed and we reject this process. It is simple.
isadore.guvamombe@zimpapers.co.zw
Labels: CONSTITUTIONAL CONFERENCE, ISIDORE GUVAMOMBE, LOVEMORE MADHUKU, NEOCOLONIALISM
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Talk of restrictive measures nonsensical
TODAY, the inclusive Government turns one year and the country is rebuilding its economy after a decade of political impasse and economic sanctions. Three political parties — Zanu-PF, MDC-T and MDC — formed the inclusive Government on February 13 2009 and have since soldiered on, albeit with a few teething problems. Features Editor, Isdore Guvamombe (IG) had a one-on-one interview on a wide range of issues with one of the three principals to the Global Political Agreement, Deputy Prime Minister Arthur Mutambara (AM), that include the GPA, economic sanctions, democracy and the Look East Policy.
IG: Deputy PM, you have just returned from the World Economic Forum in Davos, Switzerland. How was it?
AM: Yes, we just came back from Davos, where all the key leaders in government, civic society, international banking institutions — World Bank, International Monetary Fund — United Nations and so on, participated. It was a very unique experience. We want Zimbabwe to participate in the crafting of world policies and solutions. We want to define what Africa is; we want to address climate change; global buy-in and buy-out and ownership, in a holistic manner.
IG: Was that your first time at the World Economic Forum?
AM: No, no, no! This was actually my third time at the World Economic Forum. There was a lot of interest in our Government, and the way we are running things here. Slowly, but surely we are having respect and understanding on our situation.
There has been skepticism and suspicion. There has been doubt, and at times there has been a wait-and-see attitude, but we have come up with a national project that is irreversible. We, however, need to do more to build investor confidence and business compliance and we need to do more to ensure continuity.
IG: While you were at Davos, the other principal to the GPA, Prime Minister Morgan Tsvangirai told the international media that sanctions or as he calls them, restrictive measures should be removed in parts.
AM: No, no, no! Let us get it right. There are no restrictive measures, they are sanctions. This country is under full sanctions and these sanctions must go, not today or tomorrow but yesterday. The talk of restrictive measures is nonsensical. Let us stop that nonsense. There are no restrictive measures. These are sanctions. All Zimbabweans must openly speak with one voice that our country is under sanctions.
Anyway back to Davos, we explained how we came together to create this inclusive Government, where our next step is giving our civil servants living wages so that they have enough disposable incomes.
IG: But sanctions remain a real issue of the GPA?
AM: Yes, because when you target a President of a country, you are in effect, saying the country is not safe. You are discouraging investors to come to the country. We are now working like one team, and the sanctions against individuals are nonsensical.
They do not make sense. The sanctions erode our ability to access loans, our access to finances. In short, all the sanctions must go.
Yes, we have challenges in the GPA but we are having a new dispensation and we are saying help us help ourselves. We will not despair.
IG: And, what about British Foreign Secretary David Milliband’s comments that his Government will take a cue from MDC-T on the way forward on sanctions?
AM: My position has been very clear from the beginning. It is not a new position. Let us encourage these foreigners to do the right things. These do-nothing-good friends! Milliband is undermining our inclusive Government. I am very disappointed by the way such foreign leaders are naïve, stupid and undermining us. The sanctions are now central to the dialogue of the GPA. Without the removal of the sanctions we cannot talk about servicing our debt. How can Milliband say that? With friends like Milliband, who needs enemies?
IG: What about the motion moved in Parliament by Zanu-PF Mwenezi MP Kudakwashe Bhasikiti on (the) removal of sanctions?
AM: I understand the spirit of the motion. To me, there is nothing new because that motion articulates my position and my party’s position. I have already called for the removal of the sanctions. We must say now without equivocation or ambiguity that the sanctions must go.
IG: You are on record as having received applause in Cabinet, when you said that President Mugabe made an excellent decision when he undertook the Look East Policy?
AM: Well, I am bound by the rules of Cabinet and I cannot disclose deliberations of that August house. But thank you for having a source in Cabinet, whoever that is. Yes, for the Look East, there was the vision, insight and creativity.
It was insightful and correct. Zimbabweans must show maturity by giving respect where it is due. President Mugabe is a founding father of this nation, who was part of the liberation struggle. He has generational results, which you cannot take way.
You cannot take away 1980, which he brought to Zimbabwe and 1980 will be celebrated 500 years from now. These are generational results so is 1776 in America and 1876 in France. You cannot take away President Mugabe’s education policies. I am a product of his education policy.
The decision to look to China was noble, insightful and correct, but is not as simple as that. We must perfect the art of benefiting from China. By 2015 China will have overtaken America as the biggest economy. By 2040 China will control and own 40 percent of the world Gross Domestic Product and America will control and own only 14 percent. China will have US$85 000 per capita and the Chinese rich in Goungzhou will live three times better than the American rich in Los Angeles.
China is the future, America will be dwarfed. America will be a junior partner in global economics. If you don’t have a future with China you are doomed.
We are in a unique position to partner China, the future number one economy in the world. We must do all we can to patronise China. We want investors to come in from America, Britain, and all over but China is the way. In any arrangement it is important for China to be given more attention.
America owes China billions and if the Chinese withdraw assistance, America will collapse. In Davos, Americans worshipped China. You should see how Obama and Brown ran like little kids when Chinese vice premier Dr Lee was presenting. The centre is shifting. When Obama went to China recently he refused to meet the Dalai Lama. He did not want to upset the master. But are the Chinese democratic?
IG: What do you think about Chinese governance?
AM: I am a defender of democracy myself but the West’s view on democracy is simplistic. The Chinese are still communists and are not models of democracy as defined by the West, but they are very successful. Singapore is not (a) role model democracy by Western standards, and so is Malaysia but look at their economies? When you are successful no one thinks about your democracy or lack of it? China has the economic muscle and will receive no lecture from Europe, Brown, Obama or anyone.
It does not mean that democracy, good governance and a new constitution brings economic prosperity to a country. It does not mean that seek the kingdom of democracy and economic prosperity will follow. In terms of economic dynamics, seek the kingdom of prosperity and democracy will follow. We need to re-look at democracy.
There is no prediction that by 2040 the Chinese will have turned democratic. In fact they still have a lot to do in terms of democracy. It does not follow that when you have democracy you have passed, it is more complicated than that. At times democracy, human rights etc are not necessary.
IG: What does this mean for Zimbabwe?
AM: We are not trying to promote autocracy or dictatorship but a new constitution does not bring food on the table. The assumption that democracy, human rights and a new constitution bring prosperity is wrong. Yes we love human rights, yes we love democracy but they are not everything. We must learn from the Chinese.
They are using their best brains, their professors, their technocrats and their economists to run their country. They are allowing their best to run the country.
This is not political. It is about the country. We must service our debts with China like we did recently with their Zisco debt. We are lucky to have a relationship with them, starting from the liberation struggle that has continued since then, but we must improve the relationship and enter into strategic partnerships in marketing, extraction, manufacturing and value addition.
Let us change the way we deal with the Chinese to retain their confidence.
IG: Many people want to know what is happening in the inclusive Government and the talks. Can you give an insight?
AM: We are moving in the right direction. On balance things are going on very well. There are problems here and there but these problems are growing pains, but they are not insurmountable. The big issues are under control.
The national healing organ and the commissions are now done with, what is left is (the) swearing in. National healing and national rebranding are all going well. The future is very sound.
IG: Ordinary Zimbabweans think the principals are no longer interested in the talks. What is happening?
AM: No. In fact, on Friday there was a meeting of the Top Six, that is the President and his two deputies and the Prime Minister and his two deputies and the meetings went well.
IG: What did you discuss?
AM: Again I am not allowed to discuss in the public domain but we were very clear about what we want. We must move from economic stability to economic growth. The wages we are paying civil servants are not reasonable. We must pay living wages. All these activities are the mandate of the inclusive Government. We must free the media.
We must make politics attractive.
In Zimbabwe the best brains are there, they exist but some of them are not significant because they do not participate in national governance. We have the big brains elsewhere and mediocrity in politics. Let us have our big brains in running the country.
In the inclusive government, we have more successes than problems. We are on our way to the Promised Land!
isadore.guvamombe *** zimpapers.co.zw
Labels: ARTHUR MUTAMBARA, INTERVIEW, ISIDORE GUVAMOMBE, SANCTIONS, ZDERA
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